Kimco Realty Corporation (KIM) Q3 2021 Earnings Call Transcript

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Kimco Realty Corporation (NYSE:KIM)
Q3 2021 Earnings Call
Nov 5, 2021, 8:30 a.m. ET

Contents:

  • Prepared Remarks
  • Questions and Answers
  • Call Participants

Prepared Remarks:

Operator

Hello, and welcome to Kimco’s Third Quarter, 2021 Earnings Conference. [Operator Instructions] Please note, today’s event is being recorded. I now would like to turn the conference over to David Bujnicki, Senior Vice President of Investor Relations and Strategy. Please go ahead, sir.

David F. Bujnicki — Senior Vice President of Investor Relations & Strategy

Good morning, and thank you for joining Kimco’s third quarter earnings call. The Kimco management team participating on the call today include Conor Flynn, Kimco’s CEO; Ross Cooper, President and Chief Investment Officer; Glenn Cohen, our CFO; and David Jamieson, Kimco’s Chief Operating Officer; as well as other members of our executive team that are also available to answer questions during the call. As a reminder, statements made during the course of this call may be deemed forward-looking, and it is important to note that the company’s actual results could differ materially from those projected in such forward-looking statements due to a variety of risks, uncertainties and other factors. Please refer to the company’s SEC filings that address such factors.

During this presentation, management may make reference to certain non-GAAP financial measures that we believe help investors better understand Kimco’s operating results. Reconciliations of these non-GAAP financial measures can be found in the Investor Relations area of our website. Also in the event our call was to incur technical difficulties, we’ll try to resolve as quickly as possible and if the need arises, we’ll post additional information to our IR website. And with that, I’ll turn the call over to Conor.

Conor C. Flynn — Chief Executive Officer & Director

Good morning, and thanks for joining us. Today, I will share the highlights of the quarter, provide a recap of our now closed strategic merger with Weingarten and give an update on the strong leasing environment. Ross will give an update on the transaction market, and Glenn will cover our operating metrics in detail, discuss our improved balance sheet, Albertsons valuation and the proactive use of our ATM and how we can take advantage of opportunities in the market. He’ll close with an updated outlook for the balance of the year. While we have only owned Weingarten for a partial quarter, our expanded portfolio of grocery-anchored and mixed-use properties is already validating our investment thesis.

To date, we are exceeding our initial underwriting on all major metrics, including FFO, occupancy, spreads and renewal rates. As for synergies, as outlined in our earnings release, we have achieved the upper end of both ranges and anticipate achieving the full benefit of synergies by the end of 2022. Our dedicated team has done a remarkable job closing on the merger ahead of schedule and implementing an integration plan that included onboarding and training over 100 new employees, significant systems integration and property management, all while staying focused on executing our strategy. To all of my teammates, I just want to say, thank you. On the operational front, leasing demand continues to be robust across the portfolio with the bright spot being the rebound in demand for small shops. This was illustrated by the portfolio delivering another quarter of improved results, including a sequential increase in occupancy and positive leasing spreads.

Our pro-rata U.S. occupancy is up 20 basis points to 94.1 percent, while anchor occupancy remained flat at 96.9 percent. And small shop occupancy rose 180 basis points over prior quarter to 87.3 percent, an increase of 60 basis points year-over-year. New lease spreads were a positive 5 percent, with 141 new leases signed, totaling 605,000 square feet.

Spreads for renewals and options finished at positive 4.9 percent. We closed the quarter with 270 renewals and options totaling 1.4 million square feet, exceeding the five-year average number of renewals and options reported during the third quarter by 40 percent and exceeded average GLA renewed by 38 percent. Combined spreads for third quarter 2021 were positive 4.9 percent and with total 3Q, ’21 deal volume reaching 411 deals totaling 2,050,321 square feet. 411 leases executed represents the most transactions reported during a quarter since the first quarter of 2018. Our same-site NOI growth was positive 12.1 percent, including a 30 basis point contribution from redevelopments. The same-site population does not include the Weingarten sites since we only had them for a partial quarter. With the continued strength in leasing, we have maintained our 300 basis point spread of leased versus economic occupancy similar to last quarter. As of September 30, 2021, we had over 400 signed leases representing $44.8 million of pro-rata annualized base rents awaiting rent commencement. While the operating environment remains favorable, we cannot let down our guard, inflation, supply chain issues in the labor market, together or alone, can impact our business, and that is why we continue to look for the most resilient assets, improve operational efficiencies and seek out ways to help our tenants succeed. We continue to grow our portfolio in the high-growth Sunbelt markets and are committed to being the last-mile solution for tenants. There is no question that our mission-critical, last-mile brick-and-mortar locations are proving to be durable solutions for consumers, retailers and many other businesses that want scale and reach to serve the end customer. In closing, we are pleased with the progress we have made and believe that we have positioned Kimco for sustainable growth over the long term with a combination of internal and external growth levers. Our talented and deep team is focused on execution as we’re in a unique position to take advantage of a wide range of opportunities. We continue to believe we’re building something special, and the best is yet to come. Ross?

Ross Cooper — President & Chief Information Officer

Thanks, Conor, and good morning. It’s been quite an exciting quarter at Kimco, and the excitement has continued into the fourth quarter, as I will discuss shortly. There is no question that open-air shopping centers provide one of the best risk-adjusted returns of all asset classes. We continue to see additional capital sources, new and old, gaining conviction in quality open-air retail, leading to the compression of cap rates. We are fortunate to be in a position with multiple investment strategies that enable us to be active when opportunities arise, but also patient when things become too frothy. With the finalization of the Weingarten merger, we’ve been able to execute on several accretive investments and new initiatives and with the addition of new joint venture partners inherited through Weingarten, we are excited about potential growth opportunities. Subsequent to quarter end, we acquired the remaining 70 percent interest in a portfolio of six Publix-anchored Sunbelt-region shopping centers from our existing joint venture partner, Jamestown, for a gross purchase price of $425.8 million. The Publix-anchored assets represent over 1.2 million square feet of gross leasable area in infill markets throughout the Southeast, with five located in the top-performing South Florida market and one in the high-growth Atlanta market. Subsequently, Kimco entered into a joint venture partnership with Blackstone Real Estate Income Trust, under which we will both own 50 percent and Kimco will continue to manage the portfolio. It is rare to have the ability to buy a portfolio like this with short-term mark-to-market opportunities and exceptional tenant sales. We are thrilled to be partnering with Blackstone again on our new strategic venture. Also post quarter end and in line with our value creation strategy, we were successful in buying out our partner’s 85 percent interest in two grocery-anchored centers in California. Anaheim Plaza is one of the jewels of our Southern California portfolio with extraordinary highway visibility in frontage and two grocery anchors at the same property both performing exceptionally well. The second asset is Brookvale Shopping Center located in Fremont, California anchored by a lucky supermarket in CVS. The gross purchase price of the two assets was $134 million. Turning to our redevelopment program. It continues to move ahead, beginning with property-level entitlements and then selectively and creatively activating a few at a time.

While the structure and exit strategy are determined on a case-by-case basis, we see the upside knowing these infill locations are being built at a significant relative spread to the stabilized cap rate. Comps in multifamily, industrial and other asset classes are regularly transacting with cap rates starting in the 2s and 3s. Additionally, we’re continuing our structured investment program with a disciplined approach and an emphasis placed on location, demographics, quality of tenancy and operational strength of the sponsors. We view the base case of these investments as a true win-win, either generating an attractive return with a repayment down the road or exercising our right of first refusal and owning the properties outright. On that front, we completed a $21.5 million mezzanine financing on a strong performing center in San Antonio called Alamo Ranch. In just a few short months, San Antonio has gone from a market that was on our target list at Kimco to a major contributor in our portfolio with the Weingarten merger and now our second structured investment there. We continue to pursue additional opportunities in San Antonio, one of the fastest-growing MSAs in the country. We also sold three small low-growth assets this quarter. Two single tenant boxes and an undeveloped parcel for a total of $23.5 million at a flat 5 percent cap. While dispositions will remain a relatively small component of our investment strategy, we will be prudent in disposing of low-growth assets and undeveloped parcels from which we can redeploy the capital. To repeat Conor’s statement, we are confident that the best is yet to come. Off to Glenn for the financials.

Glenn Gary Cohen — Executive Vice President, Chief Financial Officer & Treasurer

Thanks, Ross, and good morning. We are pleased to report very strong third-quarter results. Overall, the portfolio continues to produce improving results, including record quarterly revenue, increased occupancy, positive leasing spreads, strong same-site NOI growth, increased collections, and lower credit loss. Our balance sheet metrics are also at the strongest levels ever. As you might expect, the completion of the $5.9 billion Weingarten merger, which closed in early August was a key contributor. While we did not have a full quarter of contribution from the addition of the Weingarten portfolio, the benefits are clearly apparent. Our team has put in enormous effort to accomplish the successful integration of Weingarten in a very short period of time. Many thanks to our highly motivated and skilled team. We couldn’t be prouder. Now for some details on our third-quarter results. NAREIT FFO was $173.7 million or $0.32 per diluted share and includes $47 million or $0.08 per diluted share of merger-related expenses. This compares to the third quarter 2020 NAREIT FFO of $106.7 million or $0.25 per diluted share, which includes aggregate charges of $16.1 million or $0.04 per diluted share related to severance for our voluntary early retirement program and early redemption of $485 million of unsecured bonds. The increase in FFO was primarily driven by higher NOI of $98.7 million, of which the Weingarten merger contributed $62.6 million. In addition, NOI benefited from lower credit loss of $30.7 million and higher straight-line rent of $14.5 million, including $2 million from the Weingarten portfolio. Improvements in collections and new leases commencing during the quarter were the major contributors. Specifically, during the third quarter, we collected approximately 98 percent of base rents. We also collected 80 percent of rents due from cash basis tenants, up from 77 percent last quarter. Furthermore, collections of prior period amounts from cash basis tenants totaled $8 million during the third quarter of 2021. Our cash basis tenants comprise 9.1 percent of pro-rata annualized base rents. If we excluded the addition of the Weingarten cash basis tenants, this amount would have been 7.3 percent, which compares favorably to the 8.8 percent level reported last quarter. In connection with the preliminary purchase price allocation for the Weingarten transaction, the debt we assumed was recorded at a fair value, which was $107 million higher than the face amount. This resulted in $6.2 million of fair market value amortization for the third quarter, which reduces interest expense and is also part of the FFO improvement.

We expect to finalize our purchase price allocation by year-end. During the third quarter, FFO also included approximately $6 million or $0.01 per diluted share related to one-time contributions from several joint ventures and higher lease termination fees. Turning to the balance sheet. We had an active quarter in the capital markets. We issued a new $500 million unsecured bond at a coupon of 2.25 percent, the lowest coupon for 10-year unsecured financing in the company’s history. Proceeds from this issuance were primarily used to fund the cash component of the merger consideration and the merger costs. We also opportunistically used our ATM equity program to issue 3.5 million shares of common stock, raising almost $77 million in net proceeds to fund some of the investment activity Ross just mentioned. This is in addition to the 179.9 million shares of common stock issued in connection with the Weingarten merger valued at $3.7 billion. We also assumed $1.8 billion of debt, including the fair value adjustment as part of the Weingarten merger.

Total common shares outstanding at quarter-end was 616.4 million, and we expect this should be a good guide for the fourth quarter. As anticipated, the Weingarten merger was a deleveraging event. As of September 30, net debt to EBITDA on a look-through basis, including pro-rata share of joint venture debt and preferred stock outstanding was seven times. This metric only includes two months of EBITDA from the Weingarten merger, but all of the debt assumed. On a pro forma basis, including a full quarter of EBITDA from Weingarten, look through net debt-to-EBITDA would be 6.3 times, representing the lowest level since we began tracking this metric. Our liquidity position also remains very strong. We ended the third quarter with over $450 million of cash and full availability on our $2 billion revolving credit facility. In addition, during the third quarter, the value of our Albertsons marketable security investment climbed to more than $1.2 billion after increasing by $457 million, which is included in net income but not FFO for the quarter.

We continue to evaluate our opportunities to begin the Albertsons monetization process. As we look ahead during 2022, we will have a variety of potential uses for the capital from the redemption of our preferred stock issuances that become callable, bonds that mature in October and November of 2022, and accretive investment opportunities. As our overall business continues to recover from the effects of the pandemic and as we begin to benefit from the successful merger and integration of the Weingarten portfolio, we are raising our full-year 2021 NAREIT FFO per share guidance range to $1.36 to $1.37, which includes $0.10 per diluted share of merger-related costs and the inclusion of the Weingarten portfolio for five months. This compares to previous NAREIT FFO per share guidance of $1.29 to $1.33, which did not include any impact from the Weingarten merger except $0.01 related to merger costs. As I touched upon, our third quarter FFO includes a total of $0.03 per share related to items that were more onetime in nature and which were not budgeted for as recurring items. This includes $0.02 per diluted share from improvements in credit loss and another $0.01 from contributions from joint ventures and lease termination fees. We will provide initial 2022 guidance on our next earnings call.

And with that, we’re happy to now take your questions.

Questions and Answers:

David F. Bujnicki — Senior Vice President of Investor Relations & Strategy

[Operator Instructions]

Operator

Yes. Thank you. [Operator Instructions] And the first question comes from Rich Hill with Morgan Stanley.

Rich Hill — Morgan Stanley — Analyst

Hi. Good morning, guys. First of all, congrats on a nice quarter. I wanted to start off with leasing spreads. Maybe get some insights from you guys if this is what a normalized market feels like. I typically look at leasing spreads as a leading indicator for same-store revenue and same-store NOI. So I’m curious, does this feel like a normal environment to you post-COVID?

Ross Cooper — President & Chief Information Officer

Yes. Thanks, Rich. Good question. So the leasing spreads, I mentioned each quarter, it’s really dependent on the population that is rolling and get executed quarter-over-quarter. So do you see volatility in that number. Some quarters, you could have significantly below market leases that roll and you execute and obviously, you’ll get a real net benefit out of that. This quarter, we had an outsized amount of small-shop volume that came through, which is typically closer to market. So that’s where you see that sub-five percent range for this quarter, but it’s not indicative necessarily what could happen next quarter if you have some outsized anchor activity that has a significant below market value that you can then — you can recapture. So when you look at what we’ve been doing over the last trailing to eight quarters and maintaining that positive spread, there is some volatility in that number, and it’s really just indicative of what’s rolling.

Conor C. Flynn — Chief Executive Officer & Director

Rich, we are in some pretty significant pricing power on escalating rents in the Sunbelt. I think that’s where you’re going to see the spreads continue to be quite strong as we’re seeing really the market rent growth there outpaced the rest of the country.

Rich Hill — Morgan Stanley — Analyst

Yes, that’s helpful. And the reason I’m just focusing on it is I go back to your 2025 guide. And if you can put up these leasing spreads, that might mean that’s a conservative guide, but well taken. Conor, maybe this is for you. I noted that Albertsons is worth $1.2 billion at the end of the quarter. Have you given any thought to monetization, how you would use that in capital allocations? Any thoughts there?

Conor C. Flynn — Chief Executive Officer & Director

Yes. As we noted in the remarks, we have a lot of optionality. I think that’s the beauty of where we sit today. Rich, if you look at the business and where we sit, we’ve got obviously a lot of leasing momentum. Clearly, we’re going to allocate a lot of capital to that. That’s our first priority as that really fuels the earnings growth. Then we have redevelopment opportunity as well. You’ve seen the entitlement work we’ve done throughout the portfolio. And the nice part is we’re seeing a lot of external growth opportunities as well as Ross outlined. We do have some debt reduction opportunities, as Glenn outlined in his script. So yes, we’re going to look at the menu and see what’s really the most accretive toward our FFO growth because that’s really where we’re focused, and we have a lot of different levers to pull. So it’s a nice — obviously, bucket of capital to redeploy. It’s not earning a tremendous amount right now. So we’re going to be prudent with it and recognize that we have a great menu to select from.

Rich Hill — Morgan Stanley — Analyst

Great. Thanks, guys. Congrats on a good quarter, again. I’ll jump back in the queue.

Operator

Thank you. And next question comes from Alexander Goldfarb with Piper Sandler.

Alexander Goldfarb — Piper Sandler — Analyst

Hi.Good morning, out there. So two questions. First, just going to the — I don’t know if you guys are going to return to the Kimstone name. But the sub-five cap rate that you guys bought at, one, just a little bit more beyond what is underlying that sub-five. And then two, just bigger picture, not surprised to see cap rates compressing, but how do you guys — how is your underwriting of acquisitions, whether portfolio or individual assets, changed? Because obviously, the price that you paid for Weingarten can’t be replicated today. So just sort of curious how your underwriting deal is today given where pricing is going?

Ross Cooper — President & Chief Information Officer

Yes, sure, happy to address that, Alex. So as it relates to the venture with Blackstone, I mean, these are clearly six assets that we felt very strongly about. Between the location, Publix being one of the best grocery anchors that you could possibly have with exceptional sales, as I mentioned in the script, having near-term mark-to-market opportunities in Publix-anchored centers is somewhat rare. So when you look at the vintage of those assets, it gives us an opportunity to create some additional growth probably sooner than some other opportunities that we have in the portfolio with Publix. So we’re really excited about that. We’re really excited about sort of reengaging our venture with Blackstone after a very successful one several years ago. Underwriting is still a very specific exercise. We look at every single asset, every single space taking into consideration the growth in the market, the demographics, where the population growth is coming from and just making sure that we have very strong conviction in our ability to push rents. We’re not looking to invest in assets that don’t have outsized growth. So the ones that you do see us pulling the trigger on, you can — rest assured that we believe very strongly, now we’re going to be able to push that outsized growth beyond the average of our portfolio. So I don’t think that there’s anything specifically changing in terms of our underwriting strategy, whether it’s a single asset or a portfolio — It’s really just making sure that we look at every single asset, every single space and feel pretty good that there’s below-market leases that we can push over time.

Alexander Goldfarb — Piper Sandler — Analyst

So as far as the Blackstone, the sub-five, what would you say that, that cap rate will get to in a few years out when you would have an ability to roll rents?

Ross Cooper — President & Chief Information Officer

Yes. I mean it’s hard to predict. We have opportunities to discuss things sooner than later, hopefully, with the grocery anchor. So the timing is going to depend on where those negotiations go. But like I said, we’re very confident that the growth there is going to outpace the average of our portfolio, hopefully, by a wide margin.

Alexander Goldfarb — Piper Sandler — Analyst

Okay. And then the second is, as far as retailer demand for space, are you sensing — not that retailers ever want to pay more in rent, but are you sensing that, that rent conversation is easier today. So when you’re saying, hey, look, we have multiple tenants for certain space. You guys have to pay more. Now the tenants are more willing to engage in those conversations whereas maybe a few years ago. they were more willing to push back. Do you sense a change there in the leasing dynamic on the rent discussion?

Ross Cooper — President & Chief Information Officer

Yes, great question. The dynamic is always evolving. And I think where we are today is there’s so much pent-up demand on the open-to-buy side for retailers. So you have some retailers that have really expanded the breadth of their offering in multiple brands that they’re looking to expand. TJX being a great example and they actually increased their open-to-buy targets. So that just makes them more competitive for space. They want space they need to grow. I think COVID — the silver lining through COVID is that brick-and-mortar is essential for any omnichannel strategy. Retailers have really come to appreciate that customers have appreciated that. It’s a great form of distribution. The margins are better there. And then thirdly, obviously, there is no new development supply coming online. It’s really COVID inventory that’s getting absorbed. So to that third point, I think, generally speaking, as more of that gets absorbed, you’re able to push rents further north. That said to Conor’s point earlier, we are seeing rent progressions in the Sunbelt and coastal markets. Southern California, for example, is becoming extremely competitive, where we are seeing some nice traction pushing that rent forward even beyond where we were pre-pandemic levels. But I’d say, generally speaking, you’re in a very healthy environment from a landlord perspective as a result of all those variables. Thank you.

Operator

Thank you. And the next question comes from Greg McGinniss with Scotiabank.

Greg McGinniss — Scotiabank — Analyst

So thinking about the synergies, which, I guess I was pleasantly surprised to see you guys in your expectation at the top end of those synergies. But given the fairly quick achievement of those goals, is there any potential for additional cost savings through 2022, perhaps?

Ross Cooper — President & Chief Information Officer

There are, yes. So we’re really proud of the team and how we’re able to integrate both companies so quickly, the majority of those initial synergies were really related to staffing and G&A, which is something that you could anticipate and plan for a premerger. What we’re really seeing now is an opportunity once we merge these companies and really looked at professional services information technology and the longer-term contracts that Weingarten has had where we can now merge them and/or dissolve some in time, will create some additional synergies that will help us push that number further northward. So from the outset, we felt very good. We invested a tremendous amount of time upfront with the integration management office, kicking off 60 days prior to the merger. So we really did a deep dive on how the combined company will look and operate. which enabled us, obviously, to achieve the numbers we did today and feel very good about what’s going to happen in ’22.

Conor C. Flynn — Chief Executive Officer & Director

The only thing I would add is Kimco is laser-focused on efficiency. We always have been built in — has ingrained that in our DNA. So yes, we’re happy with the integration and where it sits today, but we’re a combined entity going forward. And so we’ll make sure that same focus continues going forward.

Greg McGinniss — Scotiabank — Analyst

Okay. And going back to the shop leasing real quick. Is there anything you can tell us in terms of the trends you’re seeing in that space? How much of that demand and pent-up demand which tenant categories are generating kind of the most inquiries and demand for space. Any color there would be appreciated.

Ross Cooper — President & Chief Information Officer

Sure. Yes. I mean there’s demand across almost all categories right now. Grocery is the obvious one. They’re the clear beneficiary of the pandemic. They now have a surplus of cash that they’re looking to reinvest in their four walls, expand their open-to-buy, grab market share and really invest toward the future, so how do they create better connectivity with the customers. So that’s going to be really important for them as well as all sectors. Off-price, as I mentioned earlier, with TJ [Indecipherable], Farlington and others, maybe, they’re all actively expanding their footprint. Again, they see, I think, all retailers see this opportunity where it’s a short window to upgrade the quality of their portfolio, maybe penetrate a market or expand their market share in certain areas that pre-pandemic, there was no inventory available. And so you do have this COVID inventory that’s creating this unique opportunity for them. But what I found that was actually interesting, this last quarter, when we go back to our small shop activity is that 35 percent of our new deal activity was related to restaurants and the fast casual side on the small shop side. So it’s nice to see that the fast casual QSRs are coming back. The crumble cookies of the world, etc.. So you’re starting to see that expand out. And I think as COVID starts — the COVID anxiety starts to subside, people want to go back and reengage. They want to socialize or for social features, that’s creating that opportunity on the foodservice side. Fitness, the value-oriented fitness, Planet Fitness. I mentioned early on, several quarters ago that Plant and [Indecipherable] have been very proactive in wanting to expand their footprint and recapture. [Technical Issues] But you’re also seeing that now extend out in the boutique fitness category. So that’s again attracting the small shops. So you’re really seeing it from a variety of areas. And then people are playing with formats. We have Bob’s Discount who’s experimenting with a smaller format right now. So it’s giving them optionality appreciating that they may be able to provide different service offerings to different customers in different areas. And so it’s important that they have a [Indecipherable] to play from.

Greg McGinniss — Scotiabank — Analyst

And this all seems like sustainable demand in your view? Like if you look at the forward pipeline, still just as strong as it has been?

Ross Cooper — President & Chief Information Officer

I do. I mean, I think it goes back to the validation of open air and the validation that brick-and-mortar is an essential part of any retailer’s strategy. And we’ve obviously gone through a very volatile evolution over the last six years about people’s views and opinions and how the markets responded to different ideas related to e-commerce and whether or not what’s essential. But let’s go all the way back to core basics. People like to engage, they like to touch and feel product. Retailers need multiple forms of distribution to reach that customer. And so brick-and-mortar, we see it very much as being essential to them.

Conor C. Flynn — Chief Executive Officer & Director

Yes. We’re more convinced than ever that last mile retail is where we want to be and where we want to continue to focus our strategy. If you look back five years ago, that’s exactly where we were focused. And so we feel like we’re in a really good spot to benefit from that increased demand.

Greg McGinniss — Scotiabank — Analyst

Great. Thank you.

Operator

Thank you. And the next question comes from Michael Goldsmith with UBS.

Michael Goldsmith — UBS — Analyst

Good morning. First of all, thanks for taking my question. My question is on the leased occupancy to economic occupancy spread. I think given that there is a myriad of supply chain and labor issues and maybe a slowdown from lease signing to rent commencement, like, how should this metric progress from here, given that the time to go from lease signing to rent commencement is expanding. And at the same time, leasing has been so strong? How do those dynamics impact the you — impact the progression from here?

David Jamieson — Executive Vice President & Chief Operating Officer

Sure. Yes. In short, the question is whether or not lease economic will expand or contract as we look out into the future. And I think what we could see is 300 basis points is more or less at our high watermark on a historic basis. And you could see some additional expansion as we approach the first part ’22. But as these tenants start to come online and open, you are going to start to see that compression set in through the back half of ’22 and into ’23. And then I believe our normalized rate was about 170 basis points on spread. I don’t think you see that for a period of time, but you are right. To your points about supply and opening is something that we watch very, very closely. We work hand-in-hand with our tenants. We have a very substantial tenant coordination program. which really is designed to shepherd tenants through the permitting and build-out process, those that don’t have the resources available to them to address all of these issues that are coming out to the market. Obviously, that’s been really helpful. In addition to that, we’re trying to get well ahead on preordering of supplies and materials when we can, when it makes sense. We all lived through the backlog. It doesn’t matter who you are and no one’s immune to it. So we’re just eyes wide open about that process, and we’ll manage it as best we can and apply the resources that we need to do to get it done.

Conor C. Flynn — Chief Executive Officer & Director

Yes. I would just add that the one big benefit that Kimco has is our scale and our efficiencies of scale. So we’re not buying small amounts of HVAC units or roofing materials or anything that’s needed for a fit-out for a specific tenant. We usually buy in bulk and we usually get premier pricing as well as relationship pricing. So we feel like we have the ability to — as Dave mentioned, to utilize our network and to utilize our efficiencies as best we can to try and mitigate the supply chain issues.

Michael Goldsmith — UBS — Analyst

And scale is a good segue to my next question. Now that you’ve had Weingarten tucked into the business for about three months, how can — how has your scale changed your conversations with national tenants? Is there a willingness to partner? And these tenants to kind of go further with you because of your scale and you’re able to offer more opportunities for leasing than maybe smaller landlords?

Ross Cooper — President & Chief Information Officer

I think…

Michael Goldsmith — UBS — Analyst

I’m trying to understand the revenue synergy — I’m trying to understand if there are revenue synergies associated with the transaction.

Ross Cooper — President & Chief Information Officer

Sure. Well, on the retailer side, mean prior to the transaction, we’re typically the largest landlord for a lot of these retail partners. So that’s just compounded as a result of the merger. That conversation obviously always has its benefits, right? It can pull both ways depending on what’s being discussed. But in general, it does afford us the opportunity to be out in front of those retail partners. They have a very aggressive open-to-buy strategy. We now have over 560 sites that we can show them to help accommodate and fill that void. So obviously, you can do that at scale, that’s a good thing for both parties, but also helps us progress the conversation beyond that. Retailers are trying to figure out and innovate and change to become and stay more relevant to the customer. We want to work with them to be part of that solution and understand from a landlord perspective, what do we need to do. So it creates a very, very constructive dialogue to help drive our business forward and to your point, revenue and top lintop-linee growth.

Michael Goldsmith — UBS — Analyst

Thank you very much.

Operator

Thank you. And the next question comes from Haendel St. Juste with Mizuho.

Haendel St. Juste — Mizuho — Analyst

Hi. Good morning. So the recent JV, the transaction with Blackstone, I found very interesting. A case study of capitalizing on the market moving cap rates. And then you bought two JV assets out in California, further kind of spotlighting the embedded acquisition opportunity. So I guess my question is, what’s your interest level in pursuing further deals like this? And can you discuss the funding sources that would involve Albertsons stock at all? Thanks.

Ross Cooper — President & Chief Information Officer

Sure. I’m happy to address that. So for us, I mean, we really view it as a significant level of optionality. And we’ve said, even as we’ve been sort of skinnying down our joint venture exposure over the last seven or eight years, on the Kimco side, we’ve had three very strong long-term partners that we continue to do business with. And as we’ve said from the start that we like having the ability to potentially grow opportunistically, if there is a reason to bring in a new partner like we felt here on this particular transaction. But for those that are potentially looking for a monetization event, we are willing and able to be able to have that discussion with them hopefully in a negotiated basis, if not having that right of first refusal to be ready to take advantage of that if the partner is looking to exit. So one of the nice benefits that we see in the Weingarten merger is after getting down to really just three major partners on the Kimco side there are now about 14 new joint venture partners from that transaction, some of which are looking to do long-term business with Kimco and we welcome that. Others that are potentially looking to take some chips off the table or monetize their retail investments, and we’re also prepared to have those discussions as well. And we are having those conversations as we speak. So for us, given all the levers that we have, Conor mentioned and Glenn both mentioned in their prepared remarks, between the significant amount of cash, availability on our credit facility, ultimately, Albertsons monetization opportunity, We’ll just be very prudent and selective with where we want to utilize that capital, but having a lot of term ways to take advantage of opportunities as they present themselves.

Haendel St. Juste — Mizuho — Analyst

Great. Appreciate the thoughts. One follow-up on the signed but not leased ABR. I think you mentioned $44.8 million. How much of that should we expect to hit in 2022? Thanks.

Ross Cooper — President & Chief Information Officer

Right now, we’re tracking around $25 million to about $30 million potentially that could flow in ’22. And that would be obviously backloaded.

Haendel St. Juste — Mizuho — Analyst

That and remainder in ’23?

Ross Cooper — President & Chief Information Officer

Yes. Yes. Got it. Thank you.

Operator

Thank you. And the next question comes from Craig Schmidt with Bank of America.

Craig Schmidt — Bank of America — Analyst

Great. Thank you. I guess I just — I want to talk bigger about the current operating environment, which seems to have real strength from the consumer and just the aggressive leasing from retailers. This looks like an environment that’s much better than 2019 when you go back to look at people’s earnings results. So beyond event spending and then retailers looking to take advantage of opportunities, what’s beneath this impressive growth that’s happening in the operating environment?

Conor C. Flynn — Chief Executive Officer & Director

Yes. I think, again, on the retailer demand, it’s a lot of the points that I mentioned earlier, Craig, but it’s appreciating that the value of brick-and-mortar is real. Operators see it in their margins, consumers see the convenience and the efficiencies, the last-mile distribution. It goes into this very complex network of how to distribute goods from the retailer to the customer. And so I think COVID, the irony of COVID was it sort of validated that open-air was really essential. It’s closest to the customer. I think you also now have this hybrid work environment. it’s — we don’t really know what that will look like long term. But I think the one thing that’s clear is going to be a little bit different for everyone. And as a result of that, you are having people that are staying more in that first-ring suburban markets that are maybe starting to appreciate the value proposition there, too, which also then creates that opportunity to engage in open-air out in the first-ring suburbs where the majority of all of our portfolio resides. So we’re seeing that benefit as well. And that could probably carry longer term into the market. So I think you’re just starting to see all these pieces that were in flux and in development over multiple years sort of come to a head and now creating this environment that we’re in today. So going forward, I think you continue to see the open to buys be aggressive as we start to absorb that COVID inventory. And then from there, I think the consumer is in a very strong position right now to take advantage of that.

Craig Schmidt — Bank of America — Analyst

Great. And then just on your net debt to EBITDA, I guess, it’s at seven times or pro forma 6.3 times. Glenn, what’s your long-term target for net debt to EBITDA?

Glenn Gary Cohen — Executive Vice President, Chief Financial Officer & Treasurer

Yes. Well, I mean, again, we want to try and keep it in that six times to 6.5 times range on a total look-through basis. So we’re — on a pro forma basis, we’re right in that sweet spot right now. And again, we continue to focus on just bringing leverage down over time. I think as you continue to see EBITDA grow, again, we’re being very cautious about how much debt comes on. We’ve been doing a lot to reduce debt levels, absolute debt levels over time. Again, the Weingarten merger added $1.8 billion in total, $1.7 billion on a face value, $1.8 billion with the fair market value adjustment. But again, on an absolute basis, you’ll continue to see us reduce debt, and we continue to try and reduce as much secured debt as we can as well. So we did assume about $300 million of mortgages. But over time, we’ll just continue to pay those off with unsecured debt or cash flows from the company.

Craig Schmidt — Bank of America — Analyst

Thank you.

Operator

Thank you. And the next question comes from Katy McConnell with Citi.

Katy McConnell — Citi — Analyst

Thanks. Good morning, everyone. So now that you have another quarter of leasing underway. Can you update us on your expectations for mark-to-market upside within the near-term expirations within your portfolio? Especially on the anchor side and now what you’re expecting for upcoming Weingarten leases?

David Jamieson — Executive Vice President & Chief Operating Officer

Yes. Sure, Katy. We’re in the process of going through our 22 budgets now. So when you look at our rollover schedule for anchors it is below market, it’s below our average anchor base rents as well. So we do see nice mark-to-market opportunities as we either start to renew those leases, of which we’re well underway there, and/or sign new leases. So we do see a net benefit as we go into ’22, but we’re in the process of finalizing our budgets right now, and we’ll have a better perspective in the next call.

Katy McConnell — Citi — Analyst

Okay, thanks. And then on the retailer side, how do you expect these supply chain disruptions and labor shortages to play out to your tenants around the holidays this year? And are you concerned about any potential rent collection fallout or impact to new leasing momentum?

David Jamieson — Executive Vice President & Chief Operating Officer

On the rent collection side, we don’t have a material concern there. I think on the supply chain, every retailer has tried to address it differently. Some have been actively and aggressively focused on and trying to figure out ways and alternatives to redirect their supply chain through the course of this entire year, appreciating that this may be an issue. Some have brought inventory levels up in — back onto the Mainland to their preparation for the holiday season. But — It’s clear that there is — there are pressures there. I’d suggest we all buy early. We don’t want to disappoint any of our loved ones during the holiday season. And what that means to, that means, as a result, that retailers can probably have fewer promotions. So there’s a smaller promotional window, which helps drive top-line revenues, which is a net benefit to them. So it’s a really interesting dynamic that’s all playing out. On the labor shortage side, obviously, there are a number of job openings now. It’s a very robust job market. The job for just [Indecipherable]. Yes. I mean, it’s — so that’s very encouraging. But yes, there is clearly a need for more workers at the retailers and at the restaurants. And I think that will continue to play out through the first part of ’22.

Conor C. Flynn — Chief Executive Officer & Director

Kate, the only thing I would add is our traffic levels are at 105 percent of 2019 levels. And we see that in this environment, where there is supply chain disruption. We’re watching closely as what we think may occur as people will probably buy at the store more often than buying something online and potentially having to wait where it might not arrive in time. So that’s a dynamic we’re watching closely that we think might play out.

Katy McConnell — Citi — Analyst

Alright. Thank you.

Operator

Thank you. And the next question comes from Caitlin Burrows with Goldman Sachs.

Caitlin Burrows — Goldman Sachs — Analyst

Hi. Good morning, everyone. Given that you issued $77 million of equity in the quarter and your share price is now the highest of 2019, can you just go through the thinking on issuing equity in the quarter and going forward? And does it suggest you could equity fund the acquisitions going forward?

Glenn Gary Cohen — Executive Vice President, Chief Financial Officer & Treasurer

Sure. Again, we issued some — we used the ATM a little bit during the quarter. Again, it was really to match up against some of the investment opportunities that we had. And again, just a continued focus on a balance of our capital structure to further improve our leverage metrics. So we are always looking at our cost of capital and we’re looking at the opportunities that we have ahead of us. So it was a modest supplement of equity during the quarter to match up really some very accretive investments that we have.

Conor C. Flynn — Chief Executive Officer & Director

We’re a very fortunate position to have a number of different pools of capital sources. So we’re trying to make sure that we look at everything and again, our cost of capital and use it effectively to continue to grow in an accretive manner.

Glenn Gary Cohen — Executive Vice President, Chief Financial Officer & Treasurer

Yes. I mean we are — as I mentioned, we ended the quarter with over — we have about $480 million on the balance sheet. We’ve had some obviously activity that Ross mentioned, subsequent to quarter-end. So we’re still sitting with $330 million of cash, no real near-term debt maturities and full access to our revolver. In addition, we have the Albertsons investment. So we’re in very, very strong liquidity position to deal with things that are upcoming.

Caitlin Burrows — Goldman Sachs — Analyst

Okay, great. That’s all for me.

Operator

Thank you. And the next question comes from Ki Bin Kim with Truist.

Ki Bin Kim — Truist — Analyst

Thanks. Good morning. Can you hear me?

Conor C. Flynn — Chief Executive Officer & Director

Yes.

Ki Bin Kim — Truist — Analyst

So just going back to the demand question, obviously, things are great. I’m just curious about where you’re seeing the hottest pockets of demand. And conversely, where it’s a little bit weaker. And I know you mentioned [Indecipherable] versus not, but maybe you can go a little bit deeper. Does it matter? Like what type of center, power center grocery-anchored. Is it just location demographic space, where you’re seeing more customers or more population growth? I’m just trying to understand just a little more granularity on where the demand is. I don’t mean today, I mean over the next couple of years.

Ross Cooper — President & Chief Information Officer

Yes. I mean I think the next couple of years could be somewhat reflective of today as well. So just thinking of geographic’s first because you mentioned that the Sunbelt, out of the 141 leases this quarter, over 52 percent came from Sunbelt markets. And then within that, the substantial majority, we’re actually coastal some belt. So I think you will continue to see that trend progress over the next couple of years. That is where population growth is continuing to rise greater than the rest of the country. Second of that, though, on the coastal market, for that remaining, say, 48 percent of leases signed, it was heavily weighted toward the coastal markets. So I think you still see that high demand there. So between that, the coastal and Sunbelt that’s where we have seen the majority of activity. Beyond that, too, like Southern California, as I mentioned earlier, is extremely aggressive. It’s a very, very tight market to penetrate. So the scope of inventory created opportunities, multiple demand factors that helped push rents further north. In the Northeast, it’s typically been a fairly mature portfolio, usually having higher occupancy levels. And so it’s just there are natural constraints there to actually add any new supply as well. And people wanting to penetrate Long Island, for example, I think will continue to be difficult. So when there is an opportunity, you do see multiple bidders at the table wanting to enter the market. And then — so I think that’s what you continue to see play out over the next couple of years.

Ki Bin Kim — Truist — Analyst

And thinking about the Weingarten portfolio, how has that performed relative to your own portfolio? And I guess, looking forward, how much more accretive can Weingarten’s contribution be to the overall enterprise?

Ross Cooper — President & Chief Information Officer

Yes. So when we actually put — when we first went under contract on the transaction, their occupancy levels were less than ours. But by the time we actually closed, it was very, very close to where we were. So we’re getting that net benefit now of those signed leases that have yet to flow. And so we always had the original thesis that it was a very complementary portfolio to be additive in nature. I think when you look at the small shop gains that we had a 180 basis points 120 of which came from the Weingarten portfolio, six of which came from Kimco gains, which was one of our high watermarks as well quarter-over-quarter. So you’re seeing a real benefit therefrom Weingarten and then obviously combined as the entity, we’re both growing together now.

Conor C. Flynn — Chief Executive Officer & Director

Yes. The other part of it is the three mixed-use projects that they have there now, the concessions are rolling off, so the mark-to-market on those renewals is pretty far strong on those three projects. And then when we look at the future entitlement opportunities within that portfolio, it gets us really excited because that’s obviously where we’ve been focusing a lot of our time and effort for future value creation. And we feel like there’s going to be some incremental opportunities embedded throughout their portfolio, specifically Miami, Houston, and Silicon Valley that we’re digging our teeth into right now.

Ki Bin Kim — Truist — Analyst

Okay. Thank you.

Operator

Thank you. And the next question comes from Wes Golladay with Baird.

Wes Golladay — Baird — Analyst

Hi. Good morning, everyone. I guess when looking at the balance sheet, it looks like you’re in a good spot right now, especially with the Albertsons look-through. So I’m just wondering why you elected to do a joint venture on the Jamestown portfolio when there’s so much upside in the assets?

Ross Cooper — President & Chief Information Officer

Yes. I mean it’s a good question. We thought long and hard about the best approach here. We have a tremendous amount of respect for Blackstone. We’ve continued conversations with them since the success of our early venture. And ultimately, we felt that it was a perfect opportunity for us to reengage the venture that we had with them. We think that there could be some future opportunities here, and this could be the beginning. There’s no guarantees one way or the other. But we thought this was a great jumping point given all the activity that we have in the market, all the things that we see to engage that venture and see where it takes us. So that’s really what the conversation was, and we’re excited about it.

Wes Golladay — Baird — Analyst

Got it. And then when we look at Albertsons, how should we think about the monetization of that asset, maybe on, I guess, a max dollar per year if you wanted to maximize your retained cash flow and not pay out special dividends?

Glenn Gary Cohen — Executive Vice President, Chief Financial Officer & Treasurer

Yes, it’s a great question. I think there’s a few components that we have to look at when it comes to Albertsons because of the significant increase in its value. Keep in mind, our basis is incredibly low, right? Our basis today is still a little over $100 million. So the real governing factor for us is REIT compliance. So if you think about the REIT rules, 75 percent of your gross revenues have to come from real estate-related items. So that leaves about — you have a 5 percent bad income bucket and then you have the other 20 percent that could be interest and dividends and capital gains. So the governor is going to be how much our gross revenues are. And our gross revenues today on a look-forward basis with the merger, somewhere around $1.8 billion. So monetization-wise, about somewhere around $350 million to $400 million a year of gain is what we could absorb today. The larger the gross revenue number is the more we can do. But I would say today that we’re looking at somewhere around $400 million on an annual basis is what we can do.

Wes Golladay — Baird — Analyst

Got it. Thanks for the time.

Operator

Thank you. And the next question comes from Tammi Fique with Wells Fargo Securities. Thank you. Just maybe, Ross, thinking about you — said earlier, I guess that you would think about selling some assets going forward. But given your strong capital position, I guess I’m wondering what we can expect in terms of that sales activity in 2022. And if that will be driven by geography? Or will it be more one-off based upon asset growth profile?

Ross Cooper — President & Chief Information Officer

Yes. I think we believe that our dispositions program will continue to be just a pruning of select assets for a variety of reasons. I did mention how there are several joint venture partners that we have that might be looking to exit. So we have conversations with them every day. Many of the assets of which we’re talking to them about potentially buying out their position, depending on where that pricing is or the quality of those assets, some of them differ we may be market sellers if we think the pricing is too aggressive or the asset just doesn’t necessarily fit the growth profile for the portfolio. So you may see a little bit more activity from the joint venture portfolio, both on buyouts and some potential select dispositions. Otherwise, part of what we inherited with the Weingarten portfolio as well as from the previous Kimco portfolio, is some undeveloped land parcels that we’re constantly evaluating as to whether we believe they’re prudent to be developed over time or if we’re better off recycling that capital selling from non-income-producing assets and then taking that capital for higher growth opportunities. So that’s really where you’re going to see the bulk of the disposition activity. But again, we don’t think it’s going to be a tremendous component of our capital stack.

Tammi Fique — Wells Fargo Securities — Analyst

Okay. Great. And then maybe one for Glenn. It looks like FFO per share is $0.99 year-to-date. I guess with the guidance raise, it implies $0.37 to $0.38 per share in the fourth quarter. Is there anything in that fourth quarter implied FFO that is nonrecurring? Or is that a pretty good run rate as we think about 2022? Thank you.

Glenn Gary Cohen — Executive Vice President, Chief Financial Officer & Treasurer

Well, again, the $0.37, $0.38 level. Again, that is a recurring rate. Again, as I mentioned, the third quarter did have some, call them, onetime in nature items. You had some real benefit coming from the improvement in credit loss, and we did have about $0.01 coming from just higher lease termination fees and some of the contributions from the joint ventures on a one-time basis. But $0.37, $0.38 is really a recurring number that we would expect in the fourth quarter.

Tammi Fique — Wells Fargo Securities — Analyst

Great. Thanks.

Operator

Thank you. And the next question comes from Samir Khanal with Evercore ISI.

Samir Khanal — Evercore ISI — Analyst

Hi. Good morning, guys. Just in terms of occupancy, I mean, when I look at that number, you’re already at over 94 percent. We’ve talked about how strong leasing is. Can you provide some color on how you think occupancy could trend maybe in the end of the year and how much pickup you could see next year? I mean you’re sort of your high watermark level, if you call it, sort of that 96.5 percent. So trying to figure out how much upside there is into next year.

Ross Cooper — President & Chief Information Officer

Sure. Yes. I mean obviously, the last few quarters have been very strong with, on average, about 30 basis point gains between — when you blend the two together. I tend like to look back to try to understand what’s going to happen going forward. So during the — Great Recession, when we were going through the recovery period, we averaged about a 15 basis point gain when — over an extended period of time to recover back to the occupancy that we lost. Now when you look at the pandemic and COVID, we ended up losing less about 270 basis points versus around 400 basis points in occupancy and it’s over a much shorter period of time. So you’re starting to see that recovery cycle pick up a little bit sooner. And when I look out, if you’re ranging that 10 to 30 basis point occupancy gains quarter-over-quarter, that feels about right. Just to clarify that 15 basis point gain in occupancy. That’s a sequential average.

Samir Khanal — Evercore ISI — Analyst

Right. And then in terms of shop leasing. I know we talked a lot about it in the call today. But I mean, is this a scenario where you could even go beyond 90 percent, which is sort of the high watermark in the prior period?

Ross Cooper — President & Chief Information Officer

That’s the goal. That’s the goal. [Indecipherable] every day to push it as aggressively as we can and hopefully with the higher-quality portfolio and all the efforts and the investments that we made at site on sites that we have that opportunity. Do you see — I think we’re well-positioned to do it. One thing we haven’t mentioned is the pandemic really shine a light on the quality of the landlord. — and the landlord and its ability to make critical investments for the health and support and in some cases, the survivability of the tenants when we launched that TAP program back in April of 2020. It was a real lifeline to help a lot of these great operators that were just struggling for something that was completely outside of their control, and that helped us really secure and retain a number of tenants, and you start to see that now with our retention levels achieving sort of historic highs on our end as well. So I think when you mix in all these components, we have the right ingredients and now it’s incumbent upon us to execute.

Samir Khanal — Evercore ISI — Analyst

Okay. Thanks, guys.

Operator

Thank you. And the next question comes from Hong Zhang with JPMorgan.

Hong Zhang — JPMorgan — Analyst

Hi guys. I guess my first question, you saw a pretty good sequential growth in small shop occupancy this quarter. I was wondering how much of that was due to the inclusion of Weingarten in your portfolio compared to last quarter?

Ross Cooper — President & Chief Information Officer

Sure. Yes, we mentioned is a 180 basis point gain. 120 of those basis points were related to Weingarten and 60 was related to Kimco.

Hong Zhang — JPMorgan — Analyst

Got it. And in terms of thinking about your development, redevelopment pipeline, I guess when should we expect to see some projects in the Weingarten portfolio be added in there?

Ross Cooper — President & Chief Information Officer

Sure. I think it’s important to look at our redevelopment pipeline in two separate but complementary categories. The first is our core retail and repositioning effort. So the repositioning and remerchandising of the anchor boxes, of building a better mousetrap for the existing retailers. That’s where you’re going to continue to see a lot of investment, and we’re just in the process of integrating those opportunities and those projects into the combined Kimco portfolio. So that should start to be reflected in the coming quarters. And then the second part of that is obviously our Signature program. The one project we did activate earlier on was the Milton, the second tower at the Pentagon, where we had recently completed The Witmer, and that’s the 250 entitled residential unit project. And when we look at those projects going forward, we have a real menu of options. We have over 4,000 entitled residential units that we can draw upon now. Our goal is to obviously expand the entitled and the built population to over 10,000 and to 12,000 in the next five years. So we’ll look at those selectively and determine at what point in time it makes sense to activate them and at what structure. And the structure will then influencing factor and how much capital we actually have to deploy out in the market.

Hong Zhang — JPMorgan — Analyst

Got it. Thank you.

Operator

Thank you. And the next question comes from Anthony [Indecipherable] with Barclays.

Unidentified Speaker

Hi. Good morning. Just a question on the demand related to last mile. Given warehouses are sold out naturally, it seems like it could be a pretty powerful driver of demand. Could you quantify how much leasing demand you’re seeing related to retailers needing more distribution in their local areas?

Ross Cooper — President & Chief Information Officer

Sure. It’s hard to quantify right now. But anecdotally, what you’re seeing is retailers are looking to potentially either expand their back of house. So they’re looking for some additional square footage to do some inventory. You’re also seeing others like some of the grocers that are actually repurposing some of their square footage within the four walls to utilize for last-mile fulfillment and micro fulfillment. And so they’ll actually receive the goods from the loading dock and then split and distribute them to do different categories, one goes to the floor to sell the customers and walk into the store, while the balance goes to the micro fulfillment facility, which is actually within their existing four walls. And I think what you’re seeing right now is all the retailers that have the means, experimenting with what works best for them. I can’t say that I’m an expert on supply chain logistics and distribution, but I know it’s extremely complex. And so it’s really about, foundationally, how they’re set up. But it is clear that we are having these conversations and that last mile brick-and-mortar distribution is going to be a critical part for them going forward.

Conor C. Flynn — Chief Executive Officer & Director

Yes. And just anecdotally, the last, I would say, five to 10 years, we’ve been dealing with the narrative of shrinking box sizes, downsizing, downsizing, downsizing and now the question is, hey, is there additional adjacent space that we can take to enlarge the box. So it has changed, I think the narrative on becoming more flexible in how you use the square footage and integrating that last mile distribution inside the box. So to your point, it’s one that we’re watching closely.

Unidentified Speaker

Maybe on supply, I mean I know it’s not a huge issue now, but given the strong fundamentals, I would imagine that some people will start to try to build extra supply. What do you think will change the dynamics of low supply growth kind of in your markets? At what point does it become more of an issue?

Conor C. Flynn — Chief Executive Officer & Director

Costs are a big issue, right? So if you think of the land values where we’re located. So if you look at our portfolio map, that’s the main reason why we transformed our portfolio to where it sits today is because we wanted to be in locations that have high barriers to entry. So when the supply cycle does come back, it’s very hard to make a pencil to go and buy land and develop a shopping center that would compete with one of Kimco’s. You’ve got to look at the, obviously, the FAR as well in terms of the build versus the parking lot. And that’s, again, another barrier to entry in these dense areas. You just don’t have the luxury of putting 80 percent of your property as a parking lot and not generating any revenues from that. And so we’re watching it closely. We do think there’s a good amount of slack still to be absorbed from the pandemic, and we’re experiencing that throughout our portfolio. But to your point, if rents get to a point where they justify new a development, it should start to happen. We haven’t seen it yet, but those barriers to entry is why we’ve positioned our portfolio where it is because we don’t want to be sitting in an asset that has tremendous amount of unbuilt dirt around it where you can have a competitor come quickly reposition you. And so that’s why we’ve done a lot of work to be in the position we are today.

Operator

The next question comes from Chris Lucas with Capital One.

Chris Lucas — Capital One — Analyst

Good morning, everybody. Two questions from me. You guys closed the brief deal. There’s no mortgage debt on that joint venture. Is there plans to put mortgage debt on that? Or given the — where your balance sheet sits and where their balance sheet sits, it’s going to stay debt-free at this point?

Ross Cooper — President & Chief Information Officer

Yes, Chris, there actually is a small amount of debt, about $170 million on that portfolio, which we assumed into the new joint venture.

Chris Lucas — Capital One — Analyst

It does mature though soon doesn’t it? And I thought you paid it off, but I know it matures soon.

Ross Cooper — President & Chief Information Officer

Yes, it does. We’re having conversations now internally with the partnership, and we’ll determine what the next steps are there.

Glenn Gary Cohen — Executive Vice President, Chief Financial Officer & Treasurer

Yes. The expectation, though, is, again, with this partnership, as you’ve seen in many of our joint ventures that there’ll be property-level debt on it.

Chris Lucas — Capital One — Analyst

Okay. And then, Glenn, while I’ve got you, the portfolio is bigger. It’s more diverse. — you deleveraged some got a lot more liquidity and different levers to pull. Is there a goal of getting a ratings increase from the rating agencies given that backdrop? Or are you comfortable where you sit right now?

Glenn Gary Cohen — Executive Vice President, Chief Financial Officer & Treasurer

As we’ve talked about, again, it is clearly a objective and a goal of ours to get put on positive outlook and eventually get to an A3, A- level. We think it’s a separator, a differentiator for us. And it’s something that we think actually should just happen naturally as EBITDA continues to grow, and we continue to just improve overall capital structure. I mean we really check almost all the boxes for them. Some monetization of Albertsons, I think over time will — should hopefully seal the deal for them.

Chris Lucas — Capital One — Analyst

Thanks. That’s all I have this morning.

Operator

Thank you. And that concludes the question-and-answer session. I would like to return the floor to David Bujnicki for any closing comments.

Glenn Gary Cohen — Executive Vice President, Chief Financial Officer & Treasurer

Just want to thank everybody that participated on the call today. We look forward to connecting with a number of you at next week’s upcoming NAREIT conference. Until then, have a great weekend.

Operator

[Operator Closing Remarks]

Duration: 68 minutes

Call participants:

David F. Bujnicki — Senior Vice President of Investor Relations & Strategy

Conor C. Flynn — Chief Executive Officer & Director

Ross Cooper — President & Chief Information Officer

Glenn Gary Cohen — Executive Vice President, Chief Financial Officer & Treasurer

David Jamieson — Executive Vice President & Chief Operating Officer

Unidentified Speaker

Rich Hill — Morgan Stanley — Analyst

Alexander Goldfarb — Piper Sandler — Analyst

Greg McGinniss — Scotiabank — Analyst

Michael Goldsmith — UBS — Analyst

Haendel St. Juste — Mizuho — Analyst

Craig Schmidt — Bank of America — Analyst

Katy McConnell — Citi — Analyst

Caitlin Burrows — Goldman Sachs — Analyst

Ki Bin Kim — Truist — Analyst

Wes Golladay — Baird — Analyst

Tammi Fique — Wells Fargo Securities — Analyst

Samir Khanal — Evercore ISI — Analyst

Hong Zhang — JPMorgan — Analyst

Chris Lucas — Capital One — Analyst

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